I agree about the ick, and I think a good portion it can be explained by cultural differences between the former Soviet Union and “The West” where a lot of the relationship to sexuality is not quite the same.
Some of it is also a generational gap that has emerged: Andrzej Sapkowski was born in 1948, and I’ve heard my father-in-law defend Woody Allen way too much, so I think this represents a way culture has shifted as well.
Lol, I've seen that clip before, it's so accurate.
Sapkowski is certainly an artifact from another era. The cultural aspect is probably also a factor - I can't imagine many Western publishing houses, even in the 90s, would have allowed the Yennefer and Ciri scenes into the final draft, nor can I imagine books with these scenes becoming wildly popular in the 90s UK.
Still, the books did end up becoming an international success, and a number of Western authors (George R.R. Martin in his prose, Cormac McArthy in prose and real life) have had similar tendencies and still managed to become wildly popular. So, the syndrome is probably more generational than culture-bound, and it seems modern readers are a lot more tolerant of this kind of content than people might think.
Piers Anthony is another author who had an awkward and uncomfortable approach to teenage sexuality, but he was primarily published in the 70s and 80s. He was also half a generation ahead of Sapowski.
Part of what separates Sapkowski from the others of his cohort is that his popularity emerged (in the west) relatively late (a bit like George RR Martin) so his somewhat retrograde execution ends up being more influential on contemporary pop culture.
My favorite part of Blood of Elves was the caravan bit, and I love how Sapkowski wrote the racial tensions. My least favorite part was easily Ciri's training with Yennefer, I knew it was supposed to feel wholesome but it just felt really creepy for all the reasons you pointed out. That, and how women were written in general, was really jarring to me since I'd previously heard Sapkowski praised for writing women.
Thanks for reading! I also enjoyed the caravan bit - good conversations, meaningful politics, worldbuilding, humour, it was all very well crafted and entertaining. Triss was a bit weird but relatively inoffensive. Generally I would say the first half of the book is very good, but it takes a very unpleasant turn in the second half, which kind of overshadowed the positives for me.
I have also heard praise for Sapkowski's positive writing of women which, well, I sure didn't see much evidence of that in Blood of Elves! It seems like the bar is very low for male fantasy authors to be praised for writing women. GRRM also has his bad moments, yet still gets a huge amount of praise, and all that nasty stuff with Daenerys is swept under the rug (probably in part because it's embarrassing even to talk about).
I completely get your distaste for how the women and sex were handled, that's really my biggest criticism of the series. I think it does get better, at least in the sense that later female characters are very well written and treated as human beings lol but the sexual abuse is prevalent throughout and a lot of the times it does end up feeling gratuitous and fetishistic. You bring up Ciri's relationship with the older girl, which i really hated, though I don't think it's framed as a positive thing. Ciri's attraction to women is a complicated topic to talk about because it's hard to tell if she's genuinely meant to be bisexual or if the relationship was simply another instance of her being abused.
On the topic of the political views of the series, i think as the story progresses Geralts views evolve a lot and I think the overall message is one of hope and fighting to make the world better, but again, others may see it differently. I think the series finds a nice balance between cynicism and idealism.
I respect giving up on the witcher, and if you are looking for a female author I highly recommend checking out Robin Hobb's farseer trilogy (and the rest of her Elderlings universe). She's a very unique writer, her work has some similarities with GRRM and with Le Guin (another female author I highly recommend if you haven't read her stuff)
I'm not completely sure if I've definitively given up on The Witcher; I might continue in a while, if only because I would like to be able to eventually build a complete and rigorous argument about it (I was aware while writing this one that my perspective is skewed somewhat by incomplete context). Maybe with that context I would end up with a more balanced view, Blood of Elves was hard going though.
Possibly this was exacerbated because I listened to it rather than reading it, meaning that I got through it in not that many sittings, and absorbed a near fatal dose of Yennefer towards the end. If I go back to them, I will try to tackle the next one more slowly and touch grass between listens.
Robin Hobb is a good suggestion (have been meaning to look at your essays about her), and I have actually ordered A Wizard of Earthsea which I will probably read next. I feel like I should know more about Based Ursula.
A Wizard of Earthsea is phenomenal. Traditional and very, very deep. Short book but has more to say in 200 pages than LOTR manages in 1000+, which isn't to slate the latter as they're aiming for different things but rather to praise the writing and world building of Ursula Le Guin.
I have been reading Earthsea, and am through most of the first book! Fell off recently as I've been writing and gaming lots, but I hope to finish it soon. Entirely agree, it's a really beautiful story, stylistically she writes very like Tolkien but the setting feels far less idealised, and the story is also quite a bit darker and more psychological. I've loved it! Will probably write something about it here once I've finished.
I think this captures the problematic age gaps that come up in fantasy best:
https://youtu.be/mONdshkDTTE?si=Xu2f12JT01VwlVLT
I agree about the ick, and I think a good portion it can be explained by cultural differences between the former Soviet Union and “The West” where a lot of the relationship to sexuality is not quite the same.
Some of it is also a generational gap that has emerged: Andrzej Sapkowski was born in 1948, and I’ve heard my father-in-law defend Woody Allen way too much, so I think this represents a way culture has shifted as well.
Lol, I've seen that clip before, it's so accurate.
Sapkowski is certainly an artifact from another era. The cultural aspect is probably also a factor - I can't imagine many Western publishing houses, even in the 90s, would have allowed the Yennefer and Ciri scenes into the final draft, nor can I imagine books with these scenes becoming wildly popular in the 90s UK.
Still, the books did end up becoming an international success, and a number of Western authors (George R.R. Martin in his prose, Cormac McArthy in prose and real life) have had similar tendencies and still managed to become wildly popular. So, the syndrome is probably more generational than culture-bound, and it seems modern readers are a lot more tolerant of this kind of content than people might think.
Piers Anthony is another author who had an awkward and uncomfortable approach to teenage sexuality, but he was primarily published in the 70s and 80s. He was also half a generation ahead of Sapowski.
Part of what separates Sapkowski from the others of his cohort is that his popularity emerged (in the west) relatively late (a bit like George RR Martin) so his somewhat retrograde execution ends up being more influential on contemporary pop culture.
My favorite part of Blood of Elves was the caravan bit, and I love how Sapkowski wrote the racial tensions. My least favorite part was easily Ciri's training with Yennefer, I knew it was supposed to feel wholesome but it just felt really creepy for all the reasons you pointed out. That, and how women were written in general, was really jarring to me since I'd previously heard Sapkowski praised for writing women.
Thanks for reading! I also enjoyed the caravan bit - good conversations, meaningful politics, worldbuilding, humour, it was all very well crafted and entertaining. Triss was a bit weird but relatively inoffensive. Generally I would say the first half of the book is very good, but it takes a very unpleasant turn in the second half, which kind of overshadowed the positives for me.
I have also heard praise for Sapkowski's positive writing of women which, well, I sure didn't see much evidence of that in Blood of Elves! It seems like the bar is very low for male fantasy authors to be praised for writing women. GRRM also has his bad moments, yet still gets a huge amount of praise, and all that nasty stuff with Daenerys is swept under the rug (probably in part because it's embarrassing even to talk about).
I completely get your distaste for how the women and sex were handled, that's really my biggest criticism of the series. I think it does get better, at least in the sense that later female characters are very well written and treated as human beings lol but the sexual abuse is prevalent throughout and a lot of the times it does end up feeling gratuitous and fetishistic. You bring up Ciri's relationship with the older girl, which i really hated, though I don't think it's framed as a positive thing. Ciri's attraction to women is a complicated topic to talk about because it's hard to tell if she's genuinely meant to be bisexual or if the relationship was simply another instance of her being abused.
On the topic of the political views of the series, i think as the story progresses Geralts views evolve a lot and I think the overall message is one of hope and fighting to make the world better, but again, others may see it differently. I think the series finds a nice balance between cynicism and idealism.
I respect giving up on the witcher, and if you are looking for a female author I highly recommend checking out Robin Hobb's farseer trilogy (and the rest of her Elderlings universe). She's a very unique writer, her work has some similarities with GRRM and with Le Guin (another female author I highly recommend if you haven't read her stuff)
Thanks for reading!
I'm not completely sure if I've definitively given up on The Witcher; I might continue in a while, if only because I would like to be able to eventually build a complete and rigorous argument about it (I was aware while writing this one that my perspective is skewed somewhat by incomplete context). Maybe with that context I would end up with a more balanced view, Blood of Elves was hard going though.
Possibly this was exacerbated because I listened to it rather than reading it, meaning that I got through it in not that many sittings, and absorbed a near fatal dose of Yennefer towards the end. If I go back to them, I will try to tackle the next one more slowly and touch grass between listens.
Robin Hobb is a good suggestion (have been meaning to look at your essays about her), and I have actually ordered A Wizard of Earthsea which I will probably read next. I feel like I should know more about Based Ursula.
A Wizard of Earthsea is phenomenal. Traditional and very, very deep. Short book but has more to say in 200 pages than LOTR manages in 1000+, which isn't to slate the latter as they're aiming for different things but rather to praise the writing and world building of Ursula Le Guin.
I have been reading Earthsea, and am through most of the first book! Fell off recently as I've been writing and gaming lots, but I hope to finish it soon. Entirely agree, it's a really beautiful story, stylistically she writes very like Tolkien but the setting feels far less idealised, and the story is also quite a bit darker and more psychological. I've loved it! Will probably write something about it here once I've finished.